So for our local army building project our 1000 point lists are due in for the month of December tomorrow.
I have several 1k IG lists floating about but during the last month or so I have lost at least 1 game to not having a third troop unit. I also changed my original CCS from a quad melta to a quad plasma squad. To do all this I dropped the Devil Dog I had been running. I never really got anything out of it except for another chimera hull. A version of this list got run last Friday against Brent's demons (no DH Storm Troopers) and If I had been running this version I would had the win instead of the draw.
See I found myself in form control of the table but at the end of the game neither of us controlled an objective, in terms of kill points I think it was a win for me. If I had brought a small scoring unit in a vendetta I would have secured an objective for myself rather than making sure I contested it with the vendetta.
1000 Pts - December List
HQ: Company Command Squad (6#, 195 pts)
4 Company Command Squad @ 195 pts (Flak Armour; Frag Grenades; Close Combat Weapon x4; Medi-pack; Plasmagun x4; Chimera)
1 Company Commander (Flak Armour; Frag Grenades; Refractor Field; Laspistol; Close Combat Weapon; Senior Officer)
1 Chimera (Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Turret Multi-Laser; Heavy Flamer)
Troops: Veteran Squad (11#, 155 pts)
9 Veteran Squad @ 155 pts (Flak Armour; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Close Combat Weapon x9; Lasgun x6; Meltagun x3; Chimera)
1 Veteran Sergeant (Flak Armour; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Laspistol; Close Combat Weapon)
1 Chimera (Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Turret Multi-Laser; Heavy Flamer)
Troops: Veteran Squad (11#, 155 pts)
9 Veteran Squad @ 155 pts (Flak Armour; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Close Combat Weapon x9; Lasgun x6; Meltagun x3; Chimera)
1 Veteran Sergeant (Flak Armour; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Laspistol; Close Combat Weapon)
1 Chimera (Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Turret Multi-Laser; Heavy Flamer)
Troops: Inquisitorial Stormtroopers (5#, 55 pts)
5 Inquisitorial Stormtroopers [OM] @ 55 pts (Frag Grenades; Targeter; Hellgun x4; Flamer x1)
Fast Attack: Vendetta Gunship Squadron (1#, 140 pts)
1 Vendetta Gunship Squadron @ 140 pts
1 Vendetta (Extra Armor; Searchlight; Twin-linked Lascannon x3; Heavy Bolter Sponsons x2)
Fast Attack: Vendetta Gunship Squadron (1#, 140 pts)
1 Vendetta Gunship Squadron @ 140 pts
1 Vendetta (Extra Armor; Searchlight; Twin-linked Lascannon x3; Heavy Bolter Sponsons x2)
Heavy Support: Manticore Rocket Launcher (1#, 160 pts)
1 Manticore Rocket Launcher @ 160 pts (Storm Eagle Rockets; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers; Heavy Flamer)
Total Roster Cost: 1000
So the lone DH Storm Trooper squad mounts up in a vendetta, everything else stays in the tank for mobile killing power and protection. Very simple. I had my plasma CCS pay massive dividends against Brent's demons as well. The ability to generate a large number of high strength low ap (no FNP!) shots was very handy and should help me against his blood crushers as well when they show up in his list.
I have enough other anti-tank that I think I can spare the plasma for the CCS. No one like to get hit with 6-8 plasma bolts. I don't think plasma is or should supplant melta in most list but for this application I feel its warranted. Its just another tool in the box.
Finally since all of my mech vets are Kasrkin and I have to buy a blister of each (melta/plasma) to get the melta guns I need this move saves me $50.00 on more melta troops.
I will kibbits this version of my list with the Master Manipulator tomorrow morning before I finalize but I think its work out fine.
11.30.2009
I would like to welcome myself to the table
My name is Bruce and I am an addict. I have been attempting to play 40k for two years now. I sell dice cups and have a second job to support my 40k habits. I've yet to win a tournament, but I have come in second place a couple of times. I have three 40k armies and one fantasy army. Necron, Salamander, Red Corsairs, and an empire army. I've asked to contribute to the blog to add more content while Brent is busy with school. I really enjoy battle reports, so I will probably post them so that you can figure out that I suck at this game. Thanks for waisting your time reading this.
11.29.2009
Jetbike Basing: Tipping Over the Paradigm
I have a Jetbike question: what size bases do Jetbike use?
Fritz, of the Way of Saimhann, among many others, uses the Terminator-sized base, which is basically the smaller clear flying base which I know Jetbikes used to be packaged with. Now, however, they are packaged with the larger size clear base. I know - I bought 10 not three months ago.
I didn't take my Council to BOLSCON last year for fear they were incorrectly mounted (I, too, used the Terminator bases) and would be disqualified. I've since remounted the unit.
Let's be honest, the Council plays differently depending on the size of the base; there are good and bad features of both.
Before you discount the question entirely, think about it this way: would you be okay with Destroyers mounted on smaller bases? Would you think this was 'correct' even if you were cool with it?
On the other hand, Marine bikes mounted on Dreadnought based would seem downright strange, but it's not really correct to mount them on Terminator bases (though I've seen it done).
I'm not trying to be a dick, nor am I suggesting a ton of people need to rebase existing armies, but if this is a real issue and not just mental masturbation I want to know about it.
Any thoughts?
Fritz, of the Way of Saimhann, among many others, uses the Terminator-sized base, which is basically the smaller clear flying base which I know Jetbikes used to be packaged with. Now, however, they are packaged with the larger size clear base. I know - I bought 10 not three months ago.
I didn't take my Council to BOLSCON last year for fear they were incorrectly mounted (I, too, used the Terminator bases) and would be disqualified. I've since remounted the unit.
From a test-game with my buddy Bruce... who kicked my butt pretty good. He fed the Council tough nuts and took out the rest of the army around me. Incidentally, I think he's considering becoming a contributor to this blog.
Let's be honest, the Council plays differently depending on the size of the base; there are good and bad features of both.
Before you discount the question entirely, think about it this way: would you be okay with Destroyers mounted on smaller bases? Would you think this was 'correct' even if you were cool with it?
On the other hand, Marine bikes mounted on Dreadnought based would seem downright strange, but it's not really correct to mount them on Terminator bases (though I've seen it done).
I'm not trying to be a dick, nor am I suggesting a ton of people need to rebase existing armies, but if this is a real issue and not just mental masturbation I want to know about it.
Any thoughts?
11.27.2009
There's Someone Out There Better Than You
I love cliches. I had a good one illustrated to me by my father when I was a kid. My dad grew up poor in Memphis; he has these dried, gnarled bricks for fists and, according to my aunt, he once ended a fight by picking up and tossing a guy over a wall.
Dad underplays all this, of course; that's just how he is. Anyway, the two of us meet this guy at a car dealership, and Dad spends some time talking to him. He was fit, but small - maybe 5'5" and 135lbs. - and nothing much to look at. As we're leaving, Dad looks at me and says, "You know what, Brent, no matter how tough you are, there is always someone out there tougher."
I missed the point for a moment, before it hit me, "Him? That guy at the dealership?"
"Yup," he said. "That's him. He's killed more people than smallpox."
I was kinda shocked. "Tougher than you, Dad?"
"Please. I wouldn't fight that guy for any amount of money. He might kill me on accident."
We're luckier than that in our hobby. The worst that might happen to us if we throw down with someone tougher is taking a blow to our ego. In fact, one of the best ways to improve your game is playing your local veterans.
I think we all have a relative idea of where we stand on our individual, local scene. How does that translate - or does it at all - in the national scene? It's sort of a fad now to claim that such a thing doesn't exist, but I think it does. It's not well-developed, maybe, and there are plenty of people who choose not to compete... but it's there.
What's my point? I have two.
The first is that recognizing someone's achievement in a large tournament doesn't take anything away from your achievements. In discussions all over the blogosphere this year, I've read over and over again that such-and-such a victory means nothing because *enter reason here*...and doesn't that really translate into '...had _I_ been there I totally would have won.' That kind of ego is false pride, and does nothing for you - even if it were true, what's the point?
The second is this: failing to recognize you can improve will pretty much assure you won't. I'm good at this game; all things considered, if I bring my A game nobody out there is going to run me over; win, lose, or draw. On one of my favorite sites, I've seen it said more than once that this dude can beat almost anyone is 30 minutes. I choose to believe that's exaggeration for effect, as even top-teir players struggle to beat their peers. Hell, why else play?
The thing is, that's not me. This year I've accomplished several of my goals, but I also had to recognize the areas I needed improvement in. (If you're curious, that's primarily consistency and list-creation.) My goals this coming year are to improve further and play some of the top-tier guys in the regional tournaments and, hopefully, earn a place in Vegas. I'm lucky to play at a store with lots of great players, and it seems several of them may be interested in tournaments this coming year.
Remember how this post started? There's a guy out there who is THAT good, the betting man's odds-on favorite to win any tournament he enters. So I sent him my list, which he ripped apart.
(To Be Continued)
Dad underplays all this, of course; that's just how he is. Anyway, the two of us meet this guy at a car dealership, and Dad spends some time talking to him. He was fit, but small - maybe 5'5" and 135lbs. - and nothing much to look at. As we're leaving, Dad looks at me and says, "You know what, Brent, no matter how tough you are, there is always someone out there tougher."
I missed the point for a moment, before it hit me, "Him? That guy at the dealership?"
"Yup," he said. "That's him. He's killed more people than smallpox."
I was kinda shocked. "Tougher than you, Dad?"
"Please. I wouldn't fight that guy for any amount of money. He might kill me on accident."
We're luckier than that in our hobby. The worst that might happen to us if we throw down with someone tougher is taking a blow to our ego. In fact, one of the best ways to improve your game is playing your local veterans.
I think we all have a relative idea of where we stand on our individual, local scene. How does that translate - or does it at all - in the national scene? It's sort of a fad now to claim that such a thing doesn't exist, but I think it does. It's not well-developed, maybe, and there are plenty of people who choose not to compete... but it's there.
What's my point? I have two.
The first is that recognizing someone's achievement in a large tournament doesn't take anything away from your achievements. In discussions all over the blogosphere this year, I've read over and over again that such-and-such a victory means nothing because *enter reason here*...and doesn't that really translate into '...had _I_ been there I totally would have won.' That kind of ego is false pride, and does nothing for you - even if it were true, what's the point?
The second is this: failing to recognize you can improve will pretty much assure you won't. I'm good at this game; all things considered, if I bring my A game nobody out there is going to run me over; win, lose, or draw. On one of my favorite sites, I've seen it said more than once that this dude can beat almost anyone is 30 minutes. I choose to believe that's exaggeration for effect, as even top-teir players struggle to beat their peers. Hell, why else play?
The thing is, that's not me. This year I've accomplished several of my goals, but I also had to recognize the areas I needed improvement in. (If you're curious, that's primarily consistency and list-creation.) My goals this coming year are to improve further and play some of the top-tier guys in the regional tournaments and, hopefully, earn a place in Vegas. I'm lucky to play at a store with lots of great players, and it seems several of them may be interested in tournaments this coming year.
Remember how this post started? There's a guy out there who is THAT good, the betting man's odds-on favorite to win any tournament he enters. So I sent him my list, which he ripped apart.
(To Be Continued)
11.26.2009
Triggerbaby, baby!
I don't know who Triggerbaby is, but I may just have to stalk him instead of Jawaballs...
Scratch that - I can't give up on him just yet, despite the restraining order.
I was doing the 'crawl and ended up on Greenblowfly's page, there to learn someone named Gwar! has been banned from Dakka. Again. Evidently it's a good thing. If the world is a funny place, Gwar will turn around and create a site called "No, The Truth Is A Bitch" and attract a cult-following, but I digress. GBF mentioned something about YMDC... "What," says I, "does that stand for?" Google tells me it stands for 'Your Make The Call,' popularized by rules lawyers at Dakka who love love love to fight.
It wasn't a wast though, since I came across this little gem from Triggerbaby:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/187204.page
My kind of humor!
Scratch that - I can't give up on him just yet, despite the restraining order.
I was doing the 'crawl and ended up on Greenblowfly's page, there to learn someone named Gwar! has been banned from Dakka. Again. Evidently it's a good thing. If the world is a funny place, Gwar will turn around and create a site called "No, The Truth Is A Bitch" and attract a cult-following, but I digress. GBF mentioned something about YMDC... "What," says I, "does that stand for?" Google tells me it stands for 'Your Make The Call,' popularized by rules lawyers at Dakka who love love love to fight.
It wasn't a wast though, since I came across this little gem from Triggerbaby:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/187204.page
No.
I remember when YMDC used to be people asking rules questions and then 8 or 10 people would answer them before Mauleed weighed in, the cue for an additional five or ten pages of people either slavishly supporting Mauleed or contradicting him on all points because they liked to be contrary retards, all the while a cast of a thousand [see forum posting rules] cheering from the sidelines. The last two pages or so would invariably include at least one fragile momma's boy blubbering about how Mauleed was a big meanie and how he was going to tell the teacher what a mean bad place Dakka was. That, in turn, would draw assorted queers out of the woodwork (your truely included) to defend the model of Dakka as the rough-and-tumble residency school of the Games Workshop Internet where the occasional swirly or unprovoked savage raping never hurt anybody except the victim so really boy will be boys. And that, of course, meant that the healing circle crowd had to join the scrum and defend the model of Dakka as some sort of internet 40K utopia where everybody was a milquetoast and all posts were civil and we would all use three seashells instead of toilet paper. This would continue ad nauseum until MegaDave posted at least four stupid things and nobody even slightly cared anymore whether or not the Furioso Dreadnaught could take a drop pod, not that the answer was forthcoming mind you. And then the thread would be locked and we would all retire to the drawing room for cigars and vaugely homoerotic parlor games until somebody asked the exact same question two days later.
What Dakka were you on?
I remember when YMDC used to be people asking rules questions and then 8 or 10 people would answer them before Mauleed weighed in, the cue for an additional five or ten pages of people either slavishly supporting Mauleed or contradicting him on all points because they liked to be contrary retards, all the while a cast of a thousand [see forum posting rules] cheering from the sidelines. The last two pages or so would invariably include at least one fragile momma's boy blubbering about how Mauleed was a big meanie and how he was going to tell the teacher what a mean bad place Dakka was. That, in turn, would draw assorted queers out of the woodwork (your truely included) to defend the model of Dakka as the rough-and-tumble residency school of the Games Workshop Internet where the occasional swirly or unprovoked savage raping never hurt anybody except the victim so really boy will be boys. And that, of course, meant that the healing circle crowd had to join the scrum and defend the model of Dakka as some sort of internet 40K utopia where everybody was a milquetoast and all posts were civil and we would all use three seashells instead of toilet paper. This would continue ad nauseum until MegaDave posted at least four stupid things and nobody even slightly cared anymore whether or not the Furioso Dreadnaught could take a drop pod, not that the answer was forthcoming mind you. And then the thread would be locked and we would all retire to the drawing room for cigars and vaugely homoerotic parlor games until somebody asked the exact same question two days later.
What Dakka were you on?
My kind of humor!
11.25.2009
Daemons 1000 Point List
So I had to take the plunge sometime, right? And by that, I mean put my Daemon's list out there for you all to take a shot at. So, following the Eldar-for-no-apparent-reason pic is my 1000pt list for the month of December.
1000 Pts - Chaos Daemons Roster - Daemons Roster December
1 Herald of Khorne @ 130 Pts
Unit Type: Infantry; S: Independent Character; DG: Iron Hide; DGK: Hellblade; sW: Rending; sW: Power Weapon; DG: Unholy Might; DGK: Fury of Khorne; DS: Juggernaut of Khorne; S: Furious Charge; S: Daemon; S: Fearless; S: Invulnerable!; S: Eternal Warriors
6 Fiends of Slaanesh @ 190 Pts
Unit Type: Beasts; DGS: Rending Claws; DGS: Soporific Musk; sW: Rending; DG: Unholy Might (x1); S: Hit & Run; S: Daemon; S: Fearless; S: Invulnerable!; S: Eternal Warriors
6 Fiends of Slaanesh @ 190 Pts
Unit Type: Beasts; DGS: Rending Claws; DGS: Soporific Musk; sW: Rending; DG: Unholy Might (x1); S: Hit & Run; S: Daemon; S: Fearless; S: Invulnerable!; S: Eternal Warriors
10 Bloodletters of Khorne @ 185 Pts
Unit Type: Infantry; DGK: Hellblade; sW: Power Weapon; DG: Chaos Icon (x1); S: Furious Charge; S: Daemon; S: Fearless; S: Invulnerable!; S: Eternal Warriors
10 Daemonettes of Slaanesh @ 165 Pts
Unit Type: Infantry; DGS: Aura of Acquiscence; DGS: Rending Claws; sW: Rending; DG: Chaos Icon (x1); S: Fleet; S: Daemon; S: Fearless; S: Invulnerable!; S: Eternal Warriors
10 Daemonettes of Slaanesh @ 140 Pts
Unit Type: Infantry; DGS: Aura of Acquiscence; DGS: Rending Claws; sW: Rending; S: Fleet; S: Daemon; S: Fearless; S: Invulnerable!; S: Eternal Warriors
Total Roster Cost: 1000
The obvious downside here is I have exactly ONE way of destroying a Landraider... and it couldn't be more of a wing-and-a-prayer. Bottom line, I'll have to ignore them. I know of at least one army that will have Landraiders in his 1000pt Daemonhunters list... but hell, I'm what he beats up, right? The only change I'm considering is replacing a Daemonette squad with a Plaguebearer squad, but right now it's the speed I want.
Let me know what you think.
Mofreaka's Council; an in progress shot. I really dig the conversion work.
1 Herald of Khorne @ 130 Pts
Unit Type: Infantry; S: Independent Character; DG: Iron Hide; DGK: Hellblade; sW: Rending; sW: Power Weapon; DG: Unholy Might; DGK: Fury of Khorne; DS: Juggernaut of Khorne; S: Furious Charge; S: Daemon; S: Fearless; S: Invulnerable!; S: Eternal Warriors
6 Fiends of Slaanesh @ 190 Pts
Unit Type: Beasts; DGS: Rending Claws; DGS: Soporific Musk; sW: Rending; DG: Unholy Might (x1); S: Hit & Run; S: Daemon; S: Fearless; S: Invulnerable!; S: Eternal Warriors
6 Fiends of Slaanesh @ 190 Pts
Unit Type: Beasts; DGS: Rending Claws; DGS: Soporific Musk; sW: Rending; DG: Unholy Might (x1); S: Hit & Run; S: Daemon; S: Fearless; S: Invulnerable!; S: Eternal Warriors
10 Bloodletters of Khorne @ 185 Pts
Unit Type: Infantry; DGK: Hellblade; sW: Power Weapon; DG: Chaos Icon (x1); S: Furious Charge; S: Daemon; S: Fearless; S: Invulnerable!; S: Eternal Warriors
10 Daemonettes of Slaanesh @ 165 Pts
Unit Type: Infantry; DGS: Aura of Acquiscence; DGS: Rending Claws; sW: Rending; DG: Chaos Icon (x1); S: Fleet; S: Daemon; S: Fearless; S: Invulnerable!; S: Eternal Warriors
10 Daemonettes of Slaanesh @ 140 Pts
Unit Type: Infantry; DGS: Aura of Acquiscence; DGS: Rending Claws; sW: Rending; S: Fleet; S: Daemon; S: Fearless; S: Invulnerable!; S: Eternal Warriors
Total Roster Cost: 1000
The obvious downside here is I have exactly ONE way of destroying a Landraider... and it couldn't be more of a wing-and-a-prayer. Bottom line, I'll have to ignore them. I know of at least one army that will have Landraiders in his 1000pt Daemonhunters list... but hell, I'm what he beats up, right? The only change I'm considering is replacing a Daemonette squad with a Plaguebearer squad, but right now it's the speed I want.
Let me know what you think.
11.24.2009
11.20.2009
BOLSCON Game 7
I know, I know - but better late than never, right?
So this will finish off the reports of my games at BOLSCON 2009. As I've said in the past, this was by far the best tournament I've ever attended, and while I've read the information out there in 'Ye Ol' Blogosphere' that says it was a failure on *enter phrase here* level, I can only say this...
Make plans to attend in 2010. Chances are, you will have a blast. Let the forces arrayed against each other out there argue the finer points of what someone should or shouldn't enjoy - it's all beyond me!
(No, they're not paying me to say any of this.)
Game 7, Eldar HQ vs Ork HQ
The Evil Goatboy; a picture capturing the awful truth. Okay, maybe there were SOME changes in Photoshop... but the eyes weren't touched - they are naturally an evil red. He'd get along with the Master Manipulator (every store needs one), who also has naturally evil-looking orbs planted in the center of his face.
So this will finish off the reports of my games at BOLSCON 2009. As I've said in the past, this was by far the best tournament I've ever attended, and while I've read the information out there in 'Ye Ol' Blogosphere' that says it was a failure on *enter phrase here* level, I can only say this...
Make plans to attend in 2010. Chances are, you will have a blast. Let the forces arrayed against each other out there argue the finer points of what someone should or shouldn't enjoy - it's all beyond me!
(No, they're not paying me to say any of this.)
Game 7, Eldar HQ vs Ork HQ
So here we've set up our forces... mmm - something's wrong... Where is the rest of the forces? Well, in case you've not figured it out, we did an HQ battle...
And I lost.
So what happened? Nothing much. It was the final game, and while both of us were comfortably resting in the championship bracket neither of us was going to be in the money. It should be mentioned Goatboy was drrruuuuunnnkkk! He was celebrating his engagement that weekend, doing it up right; he plopped down on the table and said, "Hey - wanna do an HQ battle? I don't want to get my shit out again!"
"What?" says I, "That's unethical! It would be bucking convention to change the rules to suit our selfish purpose."
Crestfallen, Goat drained a bottle of beer (not really) and burped.
At which point I said, "I'm struck by the intricacy of your argument. I'm in."
He had a Warboss and Mekboy while I had the Avatar and Eldrad. We agreed I wouldn't use Doom but could use Fortune. His Warboss ran with the Nob Bikers, and I agreed they should join the fight!
I can take 'em! Okay, so that was dumb, but my feeling was a Fortune'd Avatar and Eldrad had a chance to win a war of attrition. Had they been able to, that would have been bragging rights for years - but it wasn't to be. When the dice started rolling, it soon became obvious it wasn't going to be a green-sorta day.
So I was put down for a loss - but who cares? It was the perfect way to end the tournament, as far as I was concerned. I got to take my wife and mother to a nice restaurant while all the games were playing out, then I stopped back in to see the trophy ceremony.
I'll end it here - there's nothing more to say about the games or event that I haven't already. I did learn something about shepherding your army through a major event and how best to maximize the chance for a good result, but I'll share that another time.
Cheers - Brent
EDIT
I just got this over the email - interesting, no?
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?aId=14700053
11.18.2009
Daemon Prince of Nurgle: Finished!
Here it is... let me know what you think.
Obviously the wings aren't done, and I think I'll have to greenstuff the magnet area some, but the model itself is finished. That is, finished in the sense I can't do more without ruining it. I can see areas where I could do more, but at my level of ability it would just be diminishing returns.
Brent
11.16.2009
Short and Sweet Daemons Update
So you probably know by now the FLGS is engaged in an army-build project, to recap: random roll then build to 2500, with tournaments on the way. I rolled Daemons, thus the recent emphasis; hopefully you like it, we'll be referring to this all year long!
I've been asking for help along the way. Here's the army Stelek recommended.
http://www.yesthetruthhurts.com/2009/10/local-project-daemonic-legion.html
Mounted Herald of Slaneesh x4
Fiends x6 x3
Daemonettes x15 x2
Plague Bearers x7 x4
Fleshhounds x12 x3
Flightless DP's x3
The idea, of course, is torrent and overwhelm. The Heralds can, if I'm not mistaken, join the fiends on the drop - an idea I love, but I missed the significance the first time I looked over this list.
I'm going to build in this general direction, but I'm giving myself some leeway for changes along the way, as I learn how to play the army. Also, I'm not sold on the Fleshhounds... a poster wrote they weren't as effective in his list as he would have liked. You can find that here, along with other assorted goodies.
http://www.powerfist.dk/forum/index.php?topic=34144.0
Finally, here is a pic of a similar build: I snagged it just to keep me motivated.
Brent
I've been asking for help along the way. Here's the army Stelek recommended.
http://www.yesthetruthhurts.com/2009/10/local-project-daemonic-legion.html
Mounted Herald of Slaneesh x4
Fiends x6 x3
Daemonettes x15 x2
Plague Bearers x7 x4
Fleshhounds x12 x3
Flightless DP's x3
The idea, of course, is torrent and overwhelm. The Heralds can, if I'm not mistaken, join the fiends on the drop - an idea I love, but I missed the significance the first time I looked over this list.
I'm going to build in this general direction, but I'm giving myself some leeway for changes along the way, as I learn how to play the army. Also, I'm not sold on the Fleshhounds... a poster wrote they weren't as effective in his list as he would have liked. You can find that here, along with other assorted goodies.
http://www.powerfist.dk/forum/index.php?topic=34144.0
Finally, here is a pic of a similar build: I snagged it just to keep me motivated.
Brent
11.14.2009
Paradigm, Tactica, and a Goatboy
Theoryhammer and his idiot-savant little brother Mathhammer go out the window when the dice start rolling.
You know you've done it: fallen in love with a unit, struck by an epiphany as you flipped through your codex for the God-only-knows-how-many time. We all of us spend more time thinking about gaming than actually doing so, and this leads to some interesting speculative diversions as we come up with all these scenarios that will bear out whatever story we're currently, lovingly crafting in our heads about just how well said unit is going to perform.
So it goes without saying it's often a surprise when the gaming table doesn't reciprocate the love and whatever uber-unit you're invested in goes tumbling off the pedestal to lay among the other hopes and dreams you've all but given up on ever achieving and... WHY GOD WHY?!
Case in point, Herr Fernseher and his sterling defense of Swooping Hawks.
I feel funny defending the Hawks so much, because I can’t make them work either. I just wish someone would, because I think IF they can connect to their target, then they are competitive with other options in the Eldar army list.
And here is the crux of it: our good man Mr. Television can't make the unit work but is convinced someone should be able to! Paradigms are a trap: you must shake off your illusions and mistakes and move on.
Don't worry, I'm not picking on Herr Fernseher. I know him personally and he's got a first-class mind - more importantly maybe, he's not afraid to be criticized. On the contrary, I love his passionate defense - there's a lesson in there to. The conversations were good and certainly worth working through if you're someone who wants to understand more about Eldar. There are available in the comments sections of recent articles, specifically HERE.
To close this off though, I'm going to answer the question for him in a way I believe he'll appreciate. Here's the short answer, cutting to the heart of the problem. It's twofold.
1) Army creation is problem-solving; when adding anti-mech in a list, it is important to plan for destroying a tank, not shaking it. Hawks can reliably stop a tank from shooting, but that's beside the point. Solve the equation.
2) The Eldar cannot afford to throw units away. If you get lucky and penetrate then destroy a tank, there's a good chance Hawks will die from the explosion. There is a better chance the occupants of said tank will climb out of the rubble and kick the crap out of you.
Close combat is the second best way to destroy a tank. These points, while Swooping Hawk specific, apply to any army. If you have a problem in your list somewhere, simplify then solve it.
All this said... all these words spoken, Herr Fernseher, and I'll let you in on a secret. The Master Manipulator (every store needs one) and I both, on more than one occasion over the years, have tried and failed to make Swooping Hawks work. That's not a bad reason to leave them at home, is it?
Strictly Average is turning its digital face in the direction of tactics and strategy. Evil Homer is currently posting on objective denial and this is my first real attempt at writing a tactical article. If you've a mind, please offer feedback so we can improve our focus.
You know you've done it: fallen in love with a unit, struck by an epiphany as you flipped through your codex for the God-only-knows-how-many time. We all of us spend more time thinking about gaming than actually doing so, and this leads to some interesting speculative diversions as we come up with all these scenarios that will bear out whatever story we're currently, lovingly crafting in our heads about just how well said unit is going to perform.
So it goes without saying it's often a surprise when the gaming table doesn't reciprocate the love and whatever uber-unit you're invested in goes tumbling off the pedestal to lay among the other hopes and dreams you've all but given up on ever achieving and... WHY GOD WHY?!
Case in point, Herr Fernseher and his sterling defense of Swooping Hawks.
I feel funny defending the Hawks so much, because I can’t make them work either. I just wish someone would, because I think IF they can connect to their target, then they are competitive with other options in the Eldar army list.
And here is the crux of it: our good man Mr. Television can't make the unit work but is convinced someone should be able to! Paradigms are a trap: you must shake off your illusions and mistakes and move on.
Don't worry, I'm not picking on Herr Fernseher. I know him personally and he's got a first-class mind - more importantly maybe, he's not afraid to be criticized. On the contrary, I love his passionate defense - there's a lesson in there to. The conversations were good and certainly worth working through if you're someone who wants to understand more about Eldar. There are available in the comments sections of recent articles, specifically HERE.
To close this off though, I'm going to answer the question for him in a way I believe he'll appreciate. Here's the short answer, cutting to the heart of the problem. It's twofold.
1) Army creation is problem-solving; when adding anti-mech in a list, it is important to plan for destroying a tank, not shaking it. Hawks can reliably stop a tank from shooting, but that's beside the point. Solve the equation.
2) The Eldar cannot afford to throw units away. If you get lucky and penetrate then destroy a tank, there's a good chance Hawks will die from the explosion. There is a better chance the occupants of said tank will climb out of the rubble and kick the crap out of you.
Close combat is the second best way to destroy a tank. These points, while Swooping Hawk specific, apply to any army. If you have a problem in your list somewhere, simplify then solve it.
All this said... all these words spoken, Herr Fernseher, and I'll let you in on a secret. The Master Manipulator (every store needs one) and I both, on more than one occasion over the years, have tried and failed to make Swooping Hawks work. That's not a bad reason to leave them at home, is it?
A sighting of the infamous Goatboy... his eyes really are red...
11.13.2009
Defensive Demons Part 1
Evil Homer’s Defensive Demons
Background
Some of you know we are running a little army building project at our local store. The premise was to randomly roll which army you had to build and play for basically the next 6-8 months beginning in December.
Brent rolled Demons and this little idea spawns from the project, my own experience with Demons and my Nurgle CSM army.
Introduction
So typically everyone wants to play Demons in your face, assault, assault, assault. You look at the statline for demons, see how easy it is to kill shit with them and then figure how to go to town. The only problem you generally run into is mech, and if you can get the other guy out of his trusty pillbox you win.
So what happens in a heavy mech environment, or when you run up against fast skimmers? You can’t get all the other guys trucks, you can’t catch the fast guy and their mobility ends up dragging you round by nose with you trying to get him with all your assaulty goodness and him shooting the shit out of and laughing the whole time. Funny how that works out.
Enter a new strategy or method for running the demon list capitalizing on the things it does really well while controlling the table.
Whoah! Demons control the table? That’s right, were going to try.
A few more thoughts before we get started:
(1) This methodology is designed for objective games more than Annihilation type missions. It’s not bad at VP denial though so it should be OK for those types of games.
(2) This method of playing demons will probably be pretty boring to play.
(3) This is pure thoughthammer, I am currently testing and building my Imperial Guard for the aforementioned project so I don’t have the time to test it. I’ve offered to let Brent use my demons to get started before he buys a bunch more metals. Hopefully he takes me up on it.
(4) Much of the material here is elementary, more observations and common things people do actually written down, especially the Table Control section. The rest is common sense fitting the units of the Demon codex to the strategy of playing defensively.
So How Do Demons Control the Table?
Table control begins prior to deployment. In any given scenario based game there are a minimum of 2 and maximum of 5 objectives. The 2 scenario game can be insta-draw but I’ll address that in the scenarios section.
You get to place objectives so does your opponent but you alternate placement. This gives you the opportunity to being controlling the table by dictating where play will happen.
In most multiple objective placement games play centers around a rough triangle with 12” sides. Careful placement on your part will include placing objectives in terrain. Because objective placement alternates you get a chance to make sure the triangle happens.
That triangle is the key to making this work. Basically you drop onto the triangle and hold your ground. The triangle limits the scope of your play, lets you concentrate your forces, and forces the opponent to play at you rather than you at him.
Let’s talk about objectives for a minute. If there are five objectives on a table how many do you to control to win?
Answer: 1 more than your opponent. How that does matter?
When you look at objectives on the table you need to identify straight away which ones you are playing for. Sanctjud over at 40k online had an interesting tactica a year or two ago that addresses this. When looking at objectives you need to decide how many to control, how many to contest and how many to cede to your opponent. If you try to play for all 5 objective in a 5 objective game you will get strung out an be unable to concentrate forces so, all due credit to Sanctjud when put a matrix together, I don’t remember if this one is the same as his but this is how I make that decision:
| #objectives | Control | Contest |
| 2 | 1 | 1 |
| 3 | 2 | 1 |
| 4 | 2 | 1 |
| 5 | 3 | 1 |
So in a 5 objective mission I pick 3 objectives I will control. I will cede 1 to my opponent straight away, and work to contest the other if I need to.
In a four objective mission I will pick 2 to control and look to contest 1 more. I will cede 1 to my opponent.
You get the idea. This idea of playing the game in a limited scope is the genesis of this defensive idea.
....edited for grammar, spelling, and clarity.
Welcoming Myself Aboard
I've been told I have army commitment issues and that I build armies in a completely backwards way but it seems to work for me.
I have exactly 1 painted army, a gs converted Death Guard army that I built and painted last year. It's a fun army and better because it comes from a shitty dex but is still fairly competitive.
My current project is the building of an IG army as part of our stores local build up project. So far my 1k list is 5-0 but that will probably change as people get their feet underneath them.
I have a treatise written on a different way to play Demons and I may post the first part later today.
11.11.2009
Lawton Tourney... (just for a change of pace)
Let's take a break from the more serious content and review the last tournament I attended. I love posting battle reports: they're sort of like mind-candy, cool while you're reading it but when it's done it's done.
(Not that I don't love the recent round of comments, 'cause I do and we'll see more of it soon.)
Birdsong ran a smallish tournament in Lawton, mostly to get his very green player base used to that style of play. It was set up so a veteran player would play a newbie in Round 1, but the two groups would split for the subsequent rounds and fight it out for two different prizes. Overall, I think it was a success... but maybe I'm biased because I won. Seriously, I knew going in I was the one to beat: I was by far the most seasoned of the veterans group. Usually when you've got a situation like that something comes along to screw it up, so I figured I'd lose every game or something. With that in mind, I just relaxed and decided not to stress. Consequently, I had a blast.
We're skipping game one; nothing to see here, move along, move along. The outcome was never in doubt, and the Eldar wiped the Guard off the board without losing a unit. That's more a testament to my opponent's inexperience that some brilliance on my part, though to be fair I was nigh on unstoppable that day.
Game 2 against Dale... what to say? Dale's a good player but my Eldar frustrate him no end. By the end of this game he was griping and stomping, saying 'he'd outlaw 'em (Eldar) if he ever ran an event!' Which of course is just silly, but that gives you an idea. Like many players, he has a problem judging what the Eldar are capable of when the units work together with Farseer support. Folks are used to the Guide/Doom combo, but there are tactics beyond that.
I should also say I'm fairly lucky. I played Gauthic last week, a player who knows the ins and outs of the game at least as well as I do, but he was rolled by my dice. It's true: when my dice turn bad, it means I'll have a run of average rolls. *shrugs* It needs to be said, I suppose. As always, I digress.
So is there some grand lesson to learn here? Not really - that's not my bag; it leads to too much he said/she said back and forth if but for that then this kinda thing... but I'll say it's better to have the initiative in 40K than to offer it to your opponent for free. The main problem with gunlines is they are reactionary. I'd always rather my opponent is reacting to something I do than implementing his own plan; even if it doesn't go exactly my way it's usually not as bad as the alternative.
Makes sense? No? Er... see why I don't try this stuff? Game 3 soon, and I'll try to illustrate the lather/rinse/repeat for you.
(Not that I don't love the recent round of comments, 'cause I do and we'll see more of it soon.)
Birdsong ran a smallish tournament in Lawton, mostly to get his very green player base used to that style of play. It was set up so a veteran player would play a newbie in Round 1, but the two groups would split for the subsequent rounds and fight it out for two different prizes. Overall, I think it was a success... but maybe I'm biased because I won. Seriously, I knew going in I was the one to beat: I was by far the most seasoned of the veterans group. Usually when you've got a situation like that something comes along to screw it up, so I figured I'd lose every game or something. With that in mind, I just relaxed and decided not to stress. Consequently, I had a blast.
We're skipping game one; nothing to see here, move along, move along. The outcome was never in doubt, and the Eldar wiped the Guard off the board without losing a unit. That's more a testament to my opponent's inexperience that some brilliance on my part, though to be fair I was nigh on unstoppable that day.
Game 2 against Dale... what to say? Dale's a good player but my Eldar frustrate him no end. By the end of this game he was griping and stomping, saying 'he'd outlaw 'em (Eldar) if he ever ran an event!' Which of course is just silly, but that gives you an idea. Like many players, he has a problem judging what the Eldar are capable of when the units work together with Farseer support. Folks are used to the Guide/Doom combo, but there are tactics beyond that.
I should also say I'm fairly lucky. I played Gauthic last week, a player who knows the ins and outs of the game at least as well as I do, but he was rolled by my dice. It's true: when my dice turn bad, it means I'll have a run of average rolls. *shrugs* It needs to be said, I suppose. As always, I digress.
The set up. Spearhead, Objectives. This was a fluffy-bunny 1500pts on a 4x4 board... and boy am I glad I play-tested that the week before, since that changes the game. A fairly standard setup. My Harlequins are eyeing the scouts in the building on my left flank while the Avatar is going to lead up the right. Eldrad has joined the Storm Guardians and is following the Avatar to support him. Dale's setup is fairly standard mech, though he has a stout Honor Guard in a Rhino, held behind his line to plug any gaps I create. My Pathfinders - who look an awful lot like Tau (I forgot my models *sad face*) - and Dark Reapers hold my objective and offer ranged support.
The Harlequins skip over and beat up the Scout Squad... that couldn't have been the named character, could it? Naw - he died real easy... must be a clone. One Wave Serpent went down to enemy fire, so the Dragons started hoofing it; the other Serpent sped up to offer cover to the advancing Avatar and Guardians. Fortune/Fortune and they're sitting pretty.
The Fire Dragons in the advancing Serpent jump out to knock off a Rhino, giving the Harlequins something juicy to charge. It's inevitable that the Honor Guard are going to counterattack with devastating effect, but I hope to keep them busy until the Avatar and Co. can finish up their initial task. Since we're fighting it out on the Marine's side of the board, my Reapers and Pathfinder are free to plink away with impunity. The Dark Reapers absolutely crushed the Marines on the left flank, giving the Harlequins an easy time of things. For the record, it's why I take them. The Tempest Launcher is one of the nastiest weapons in the game and even one shot can change the outcome of an entire turn - or even an entire game. It is rare they don't earn their points and then some - the last time that happened was Round II Game II Hare Boys vs Adam's Eldar... and yea, that sucked. Anyway, the Avatar is set to destroy the Vindicator but the Fire Dragons do it before him, so he contents himself with charging the Land Speeder, and while he doesn't bring it down it's a free 6-inches of movement. Strictly Average!
I'll end it here. The Honor Guard got in the fight and took out the Harlequins and the yellow squad of Fire Dragons, but they'd done their job, not least of which was to bait the Honor Guard into the open. I ended them with Reaper fire then a combined charge with the Avatar and Eldrad-lead Storm Guardians. Notice the Viper? It's why I take it if I have a spare 50 points, to block tank shock. Dale had one vehicle left to try and contest the top objective and the Land Speeder the same for the bottom, but I blocked the one and shot the other. To add insult to injury, we rolled another round and I wiped him out.
So is there some grand lesson to learn here? Not really - that's not my bag; it leads to too much he said/she said back and forth if but for that then this kinda thing... but I'll say it's better to have the initiative in 40K than to offer it to your opponent for free. The main problem with gunlines is they are reactionary. I'd always rather my opponent is reacting to something I do than implementing his own plan; even if it doesn't go exactly my way it's usually not as bad as the alternative.
Makes sense? No? Er... see why I don't try this stuff? Game 3 soon, and I'll try to illustrate the lather/rinse/repeat for you.
11.09.2009
Stealing Content... Again
We've been discussing Harlequins here recently and the talk in the comments turned to Swooping Hawks. The Master Manipulator (every store needs one) said the following:
Hawks don't look that good on paper either. The eldar actually have better more reliable ways to kill AV 14.
A 10 man unit should hit with 5 (4+ to hit with Intercept), and then less than 16% chance to pen. That less than a 10% chance to pen (and lets be real here, glance tanks all day and they don't really care).
Then look at a wave serpent (available at fine eldar motor pools near you) with TL bright lances. They will hit 75% of the time (4+ twin linked equals 75%), from that you should pen 33% of the time. That means with a single serpent you have just under a 25% chance to pen a AV 14.
Those things are available up and down the force org chart. They are also expensive, but you get one for a little more than half what most AV 14 vehicles cost.
Heck take a BL in almost any other format and it is almost equal to your chances with a Hawk unit. Guardians with a platform hit 50%, pen 33% is just over 15% to pen with a single. I know you get additional glancing hits with the hawks, but you also require a more expensive unit as well as the opportunity to get them there.
I know not everyone looks at stats the same, but all things being equal they can give you a good idea how something should perform. The numbers for the hawks just don't measure up. Trust me, I wanted them to work in the current dex, and most times they just leave me with headaches.
One other thing, if you insist of them don't immediately discount deep striking. You don't have to use deep striking to get close to the enemy. You can also use it to buy time, ect. There is not a whole lot of difference between jumping up behind a piece of terrain and DSing behind a piece of terrain. It does allow you to wait to see where you opponent commits before you make a move.
I'm posting it because it's nice and succinct, which is much different from my normal wall of text. Might as well steal some content as I'm trying to convince some of my peers to contribute here. Notice the not-so-subtle hint?
Hawks don't look that good on paper either. The eldar actually have better more reliable ways to kill AV 14.
A 10 man unit should hit with 5 (4+ to hit with Intercept), and then less than 16% chance to pen. That less than a 10% chance to pen (and lets be real here, glance tanks all day and they don't really care).
Then look at a wave serpent (available at fine eldar motor pools near you) with TL bright lances. They will hit 75% of the time (4+ twin linked equals 75%), from that you should pen 33% of the time. That means with a single serpent you have just under a 25% chance to pen a AV 14.
Those things are available up and down the force org chart. They are also expensive, but you get one for a little more than half what most AV 14 vehicles cost.
Heck take a BL in almost any other format and it is almost equal to your chances with a Hawk unit. Guardians with a platform hit 50%, pen 33% is just over 15% to pen with a single. I know you get additional glancing hits with the hawks, but you also require a more expensive unit as well as the opportunity to get them there.
I know not everyone looks at stats the same, but all things being equal they can give you a good idea how something should perform. The numbers for the hawks just don't measure up. Trust me, I wanted them to work in the current dex, and most times they just leave me with headaches.
One other thing, if you insist of them don't immediately discount deep striking. You don't have to use deep striking to get close to the enemy. You can also use it to buy time, ect. There is not a whole lot of difference between jumping up behind a piece of terrain and DSing behind a piece of terrain. It does allow you to wait to see where you opponent commits before you make a move.
I'm posting it because it's nice and succinct, which is much different from my normal wall of text. Might as well steal some content as I'm trying to convince some of my peers to contribute here. Notice the not-so-subtle hint?
And here's a blast from the past, just 'cause I hate posting without pictures.
11.08.2009
On Harlequins and Fritz's Army, Part Two
Jwolf said...
The best use for Harlequins in the current environment is as colorful objective markers.
It's hard to argue with that... but I'm gonna! You'll have to wait till the end to see if I make a cogent point though; read on, McDude, and let loose the clowns of war!
*oh, stomach ache*
JWolf's statement capped the comments from last post; frankly, I think most people agree with him. If I may be so bold, for the reasons I outlined last post... Fire Dragons are too important a unit to do without. Harlequins would see more use in the Fast Attack slot.
The Master Manipulator (every story needs one) and the Evil Homer both took stabs at creating a 1750 army using the restriction of 3 good-sized Harlequin squads and I think it's safe to say nobody is particularly pleased with the outcome. I created one as well, but it wasn't significantly different from the approach they took so I didn't bother posting it, nor will I do so here. There is a reason they all look alike. They all must overcome the same weaknesses.
1) Popping mech.
One of the choices every army needs to make is how it intends to deal with armor. With so much of the army tied up in Clowns, much of the rest of the force needs to address this issue. Fritz and the Master Manipulator (every store needs one) use Wraithlords in this role, while Evil Homer fits in two Fire Prisms. As you can see, just these two decisions, focusing on Harlequins and how to combat mech, force the army list in a particular direction, given other choices are (arguably) substandard.
2) Troops and the role they will play.
The other big choice an army must make is the investment in troops. This is easier for some armies than others; ork boys, for example, are an inexpensive and useful addition to a list, so it doesn't hurt to have to find the points for them. Given that many codexes are strongest in the Elites and Heavy Support slots - and the Eldar are no exception - sometimes its hard to want to spend any points beyond the minimum required on your troops choices. Don't get me wrong, I like the options the Eldar have, but which unit fits best with the theme and expectations of the Harlequin list? Fritz chose Pathfinders while Storm Guardians were used in the other lists. As an aside, I used Jetbikes in the test list I did; 4 squads of 3 with no upgrades coming to 66 points each, there only role being to hold/contest objectives. I'm not saying that's right or wrong, but obviously the choice dictates the play. Fritz will use pinning as a tactic during the game, while Evil Homer mentioned screening the Harlequins to reduce casualties. Regardless, this is a mandatory choice, and I believe an important distinction to make.
3) Tanks a lot (another awful pun).
Mech is obviously very important in 5th, being a combination of fast and resilient, but arguably the most important thing a tank can do is carry troops. The issue I want to speak to today is how many is too many and how many is too few? If you bring too much mech it can be difficult for an opponent to deal with, but chances are you don't have much in the way of soldiers on the field. Meanwhile, taking only a few tanks means being particularly vulnerable to the wide array of tank-busting options littering the fields of battle these days. These thoughts, while perhaps not codified in the way I've put it, had to play a hand in the decisions folks made when crafting their list. Fritz and the Master Manipulator (every store needs one) chose not to include tanks - a choice I believe will be more popular over the next year - while Evil Homer went the other way and included 5. There are a number of factors to consider here: a Rhino is much less expensive than a Devilfish, so the commitment isn't as great, just being one example. Two tanks are vulnerable, while five are much less so... but I'll let it go with that for now. Regardless, I believe these were the reasons you didn't see troop choices in transports in any of the lists.
To avoid the 'Wall of Text' as Mercer called it, I'm going to end this thread here, but I invite comments. This thread is in no way meant to disparage Fritz's list; I enjoy it, and believe it is a very original contribution to the sometimes similar themes we're all seeing, but I did want to address his question in fullness and hopefully use it as an example we can all learn from.
Oh, yea - JWolf's comment. I use exactly one unit of Harlequins in my Hybrid force because it fits a decision I was called to make. I use two squads of 10 Fire Dragons plus numerous Bright Lances, so I didn't need that last Elite slot for more Fusion Guns, but I did need a fast response unit to support my Avatar and a unit of clowns met this description perfectly. In that sense, I believe Harlequins fit the bill perfectly and I'll address this more in future posts on the subject of choices and decisions made during list creation.
That said, I don't miss the point he's making and I would invite him to comment further.
(Don't make me beg... that's a sad site...)
The best use for Harlequins in the current environment is as colorful objective markers.
It's hard to argue with that... but I'm gonna! You'll have to wait till the end to see if I make a cogent point though; read on, McDude, and let loose the clowns of war!
*oh, stomach ache*
JWolf's statement capped the comments from last post; frankly, I think most people agree with him. If I may be so bold, for the reasons I outlined last post... Fire Dragons are too important a unit to do without. Harlequins would see more use in the Fast Attack slot.
The Master Manipulator (every story needs one) and the Evil Homer both took stabs at creating a 1750 army using the restriction of 3 good-sized Harlequin squads and I think it's safe to say nobody is particularly pleased with the outcome. I created one as well, but it wasn't significantly different from the approach they took so I didn't bother posting it, nor will I do so here. There is a reason they all look alike. They all must overcome the same weaknesses.
1) Popping mech.
One of the choices every army needs to make is how it intends to deal with armor. With so much of the army tied up in Clowns, much of the rest of the force needs to address this issue. Fritz and the Master Manipulator (every store needs one) use Wraithlords in this role, while Evil Homer fits in two Fire Prisms. As you can see, just these two decisions, focusing on Harlequins and how to combat mech, force the army list in a particular direction, given other choices are (arguably) substandard.
2) Troops and the role they will play.
The other big choice an army must make is the investment in troops. This is easier for some armies than others; ork boys, for example, are an inexpensive and useful addition to a list, so it doesn't hurt to have to find the points for them. Given that many codexes are strongest in the Elites and Heavy Support slots - and the Eldar are no exception - sometimes its hard to want to spend any points beyond the minimum required on your troops choices. Don't get me wrong, I like the options the Eldar have, but which unit fits best with the theme and expectations of the Harlequin list? Fritz chose Pathfinders while Storm Guardians were used in the other lists. As an aside, I used Jetbikes in the test list I did; 4 squads of 3 with no upgrades coming to 66 points each, there only role being to hold/contest objectives. I'm not saying that's right or wrong, but obviously the choice dictates the play. Fritz will use pinning as a tactic during the game, while Evil Homer mentioned screening the Harlequins to reduce casualties. Regardless, this is a mandatory choice, and I believe an important distinction to make.
3) Tanks a lot (another awful pun).
Mech is obviously very important in 5th, being a combination of fast and resilient, but arguably the most important thing a tank can do is carry troops. The issue I want to speak to today is how many is too many and how many is too few? If you bring too much mech it can be difficult for an opponent to deal with, but chances are you don't have much in the way of soldiers on the field. Meanwhile, taking only a few tanks means being particularly vulnerable to the wide array of tank-busting options littering the fields of battle these days. These thoughts, while perhaps not codified in the way I've put it, had to play a hand in the decisions folks made when crafting their list. Fritz and the Master Manipulator (every store needs one) chose not to include tanks - a choice I believe will be more popular over the next year - while Evil Homer went the other way and included 5. There are a number of factors to consider here: a Rhino is much less expensive than a Devilfish, so the commitment isn't as great, just being one example. Two tanks are vulnerable, while five are much less so... but I'll let it go with that for now. Regardless, I believe these were the reasons you didn't see troop choices in transports in any of the lists.
To avoid the 'Wall of Text' as Mercer called it, I'm going to end this thread here, but I invite comments. This thread is in no way meant to disparage Fritz's list; I enjoy it, and believe it is a very original contribution to the sometimes similar themes we're all seeing, but I did want to address his question in fullness and hopefully use it as an example we can all learn from.
Oh, yea - JWolf's comment. I use exactly one unit of Harlequins in my Hybrid force because it fits a decision I was called to make. I use two squads of 10 Fire Dragons plus numerous Bright Lances, so I didn't need that last Elite slot for more Fusion Guns, but I did need a fast response unit to support my Avatar and a unit of clowns met this description perfectly. In that sense, I believe Harlequins fit the bill perfectly and I'll address this more in future posts on the subject of choices and decisions made during list creation.
That said, I don't miss the point he's making and I would invite him to comment further.
(Don't make me beg... that's a sad site...)
11.06.2009
On Harlequins and Fritz's Army
A few months ago, Fritz asked me to comment on Harlequins, given I was the only other person he's seen that uses them. I didn't forget he asked, but I've waited for the appropriate time to address the question, so here we go.
Fritz said...Brent, I'd like to hear some of your thoughts on the Harlequins in your army. Nobody plays them anymore and opponent's don't seem to know what to expect- for that reason I've been getting in more games with my clowns, but it is still a WIP and fine tuning tactics. Last three tourneys I played in, with BOLS being the third out of everybody the only guy playing harlequins was you. Didn't see anybody else at BOLS, did you?
(Little shit-head broke some miniatures... but I digress.)
No, I was the only Eldar player using Harlequins. Given this question was on my mind, I looked around at various tournaments, including Hard Boyz, and there wasn't a unit to be found.
Fire Dragons is the short answer. Any really good Eldar build will have at least two units of Fire Dragons, either in Wave Serpents or Falcons. Often, all three elite slots have Fire Dragons in them; I won't touch on the reason why, as it is obvious.
In my opinion (born out by success on the table), Harlequins are still a great unit, but they have one huge fault: no dedicated transport. They're strictly a foot unit. Any decision to include them means you have to address the delivery system. Walk or catch a ride? Luckily they're fast, given terrain doesn't slow them down and they have fleet, not to mention the protection from shooting they get from Veil - but with 5th Edition trending toward mech, this is unpalatable to most people. The Falcon is okay, but can get expensive; worse from the Harlequins perspective, there are only six spots in the ride so you can't max out the unit.
That said, this was done often enough it got a name, Clown Cars. All well and good, but there is a reason we don't see 'em anymore.
To recap, taking Harlequins means you can't take Fire Dragons, so not only do you have to determine how Harlequins fit in the army you're putting together you also have to work out how you're going to destroy tanks. Bright Lances are good, but not as good as Fusion Guns; they're also expensive. Carry the excercise out and you find the simple decision to include the unit determines the entire composition and type of army you're running.
Fritz's army is a good example, from the post
http://saimhann.blogspot.com/2009/04/1750-eldar-harlequin-army.html
HQ: Eldrad
Elite: 10 Harlequins W/ 2 Fusion Pistols, Shadowseer, Death Jester, Kisses
Elite: 10 Harlequins W/ 2 Fusion Pistols, Shadowseer, Death Jester, Kisses
Elite: 10 Harlequins W/ 2 Fusion Pistols, Shadowseer, Death Jester, Kisses
Troops: 7 Rangers
Troops: 6 Rangers
Heavy Support: 1 Wraithlord W/ Flamers, Brightlance, Missile Launcher
Heavy Support: 1 Wraithlord W/ Flamers, Brightlance, Missile Launcher
Heavy Support: 1 Wraithlord W/ Flamers, Brightlance, Missile Launcher
Applying the logic I outlined, you'll see the entire army was built around Harlequins. Obviously in this case he wanted to, but that's not the point, is it? Fritz had to include multiple ways to destroy tanks, from the Fusion Pistols to the Brightlances and Missle Launchers it was a must-have. He went further and included pinning as a tactic, in order to slow his opponent down and allow his Harlequins to choose the best assaults.
Are there other ways to build an army around three full-size units of Harlequins? I've played around with a few ideas but didn't come up with anything particularly earth shattering.
Anyone got anything good? The points was 1750.
Oh, and the comments are fixed - thanks for letting me know they were down.
Fritz said...Brent, I'd like to hear some of your thoughts on the Harlequins in your army. Nobody plays them anymore and opponent's don't seem to know what to expect- for that reason I've been getting in more games with my clowns, but it is still a WIP and fine tuning tactics. Last three tourneys I played in, with BOLS being the third out of everybody the only guy playing harlequins was you. Didn't see anybody else at BOLS, did you?
No, I was the only Eldar player using Harlequins. Given this question was on my mind, I looked around at various tournaments, including Hard Boyz, and there wasn't a unit to be found.
Fire Dragons is the short answer. Any really good Eldar build will have at least two units of Fire Dragons, either in Wave Serpents or Falcons. Often, all three elite slots have Fire Dragons in them; I won't touch on the reason why, as it is obvious.
In my opinion (born out by success on the table), Harlequins are still a great unit, but they have one huge fault: no dedicated transport. They're strictly a foot unit. Any decision to include them means you have to address the delivery system. Walk or catch a ride? Luckily they're fast, given terrain doesn't slow them down and they have fleet, not to mention the protection from shooting they get from Veil - but with 5th Edition trending toward mech, this is unpalatable to most people. The Falcon is okay, but can get expensive; worse from the Harlequins perspective, there are only six spots in the ride so you can't max out the unit.
That said, this was done often enough it got a name, Clown Cars. All well and good, but there is a reason we don't see 'em anymore.
To recap, taking Harlequins means you can't take Fire Dragons, so not only do you have to determine how Harlequins fit in the army you're putting together you also have to work out how you're going to destroy tanks. Bright Lances are good, but not as good as Fusion Guns; they're also expensive. Carry the excercise out and you find the simple decision to include the unit determines the entire composition and type of army you're running.
Fritz's army is a good example, from the post
http://saimhann.blogspot.com/2009/04/1750-eldar-harlequin-army.html
HQ: Eldrad
Elite: 10 Harlequins W/ 2 Fusion Pistols, Shadowseer, Death Jester, Kisses
Elite: 10 Harlequins W/ 2 Fusion Pistols, Shadowseer, Death Jester, Kisses
Elite: 10 Harlequins W/ 2 Fusion Pistols, Shadowseer, Death Jester, Kisses
Troops: 7 Rangers
Troops: 6 Rangers
Heavy Support: 1 Wraithlord W/ Flamers, Brightlance, Missile Launcher
Heavy Support: 1 Wraithlord W/ Flamers, Brightlance, Missile Launcher
Heavy Support: 1 Wraithlord W/ Flamers, Brightlance, Missile Launcher
Applying the logic I outlined, you'll see the entire army was built around Harlequins. Obviously in this case he wanted to, but that's not the point, is it? Fritz had to include multiple ways to destroy tanks, from the Fusion Pistols to the Brightlances and Missle Launchers it was a must-have. He went further and included pinning as a tactic, in order to slow his opponent down and allow his Harlequins to choose the best assaults.
Are there other ways to build an army around three full-size units of Harlequins? I've played around with a few ideas but didn't come up with anything particularly earth shattering.
Anyone got anything good? The points was 1750.
Oh, and the comments are fixed - thanks for letting me know they were down.
11.04.2009
Making Changes
I'm making changes to the look of the blog. I'm not happy. I ended up reverting back as much as I could, but I somehow lost my blog roll, and that's really annoying. I'll get it back up soon.
I build websites at work, and while it's not my primary job I'm pretty good at it. Blogger is a different deal, and since I actually seem to enjoy this I need more than a template.
I wish I had a friend who knew this kind of stuff.
*cough* Gauthic *cough*
I don't like posting without pictures, so this was my favorite Eldar army from Hard Boyz RIII in Chicago. I'm still trying to figure out what he used as the Fire Prism gems.
Take care - Brent
I build websites at work, and while it's not my primary job I'm pretty good at it. Blogger is a different deal, and since I actually seem to enjoy this I need more than a template.
I wish I had a friend who knew this kind of stuff.
*cough* Gauthic *cough*
I don't like posting without pictures, so this was my favorite Eldar army from Hard Boyz RIII in Chicago. I'm still trying to figure out what he used as the Fire Prism gems.
Take care - Brent
11.03.2009
Daemons Test Models (and Putting Out the Flame)
Here are the test models for my army; click on the pic and tell me what you think.
So as the readers of my little blog know - all two of you (if I include myself...) - I'm working on a Chaos Daemons army for the FLGS's Army Project 2010.
Er... I said that... Army Project 2010... I don't know what it's called, since the Master Manipulator (every store needs one) hasn't told us yet.
So last night I finished my Fiend test model and completed one for each of the other Powers. The idea is to come up with paint scheme that is easy, fast, and good-looking. I think I've accomplished that, as each of these models took less than an hour to paint - in fact, two of them took half an hour - and I think they look pretty sharp. I tried to tie the army together through the tones and accent colors. Basically, I've over-brushed the primary color; purple, red, blue, and green, then used the same sea-green color to highlight each before inking them. Obviously the colors are different, but my hope was the shade of color would be similar. Then accent colors and voila! I can assembly line these models quickly, so I'm pretty happy.
Any thoughts?
Last bit of business... Paul responded very graciously to my last post on YTTH: here it is.
Paul said:
I'm sorry Brent, I didn't know it was eating you up like that.
I apologize for taking it too far. I guess you were the bigger man after all. :/
Thank your wife for me, I'll thank mine for you. Patient women are a true blessing.
That's God's own truth - I'm very grateful my wife stopped me from making a huge mistake. I didn't realize it would eat at me either, but I'm certainly guilty of escalating it. I'm glad it ended this way, since it's proof there is a thinking person behind the words on my computer screen.
More Daemons next time, plus the long-delayed recent tournament.
11.02.2009
An Intervention: Back to Hobby
Recently I've been wrapped up in my very first flame war over on YTTH. It's over now; it thankfully ran out of steam. But I needed an intervention, and I got the following from my friend Bruce.
Bruce said...
Okay gossip girl, you asked for it. Quit acting like the Perez Hilton of 40k. These are grown men who have taken more blows to the face than Jenna Jamison, but don't get paid for it. They play a competitive game of who's right and who's wrong, and it is just a matter of perspective when you get down to it. Let the the fans call names and stir shit up, hell someones going to do it anyways, but let it die on a different blog. This is high school crap, talk about what really matters to gamers which since you've forgotten is games. Intervention over.
*slow clap* Genius.
Here was my final message on it.
Brent said... (in response, on YTTH)
*shrugs* I asked him. It's why he responded - I sent him an email and asked him. (Talking about Mkerr.)
I'm done, and I think this is a good place to end it. I've done my best to advocate for how I see things, but I recognize others have a different perspective that is equally valid. More to the point, I don't like how wrapped up I got in this. I spent part of the day Sunday crafting some really vile attack posts, and the only thing I can say is I'm glad my wife was around to call me out on it. It would have been a horrible mistake to post it, but I'm ashamed I even wrote it. Paul, I don't know you, but it's obvious you've got a brain in your head by what you've wrote and how you've written it. I think if we met face to face we could have a civil discussion, but if I've been an ass in these posts I apologize. Anyway, you gave the world 'monkeysphere' so this hasn't been a waste.
I was serious about the time spent on Sunday. I lovingly created a very over-the-top smear campaign that, like a nuke, would have hit everyone. Including me, 'cause I would have been the ass to post it. It was uncalled for, completely, but I was irritated.
My ego got the best of me. I somehow thought I was above placing real emotion in something said/done on a website. Well, I wasn't immune. I jumped right in.
My sincere apologies to anyone I wronged, from JWolf who wasted his time to Bruce who has been looking forward to hearing about my recent tournament win.
Bruce said...
Okay gossip girl, you asked for it. Quit acting like the Perez Hilton of 40k. These are grown men who have taken more blows to the face than Jenna Jamison, but don't get paid for it. They play a competitive game of who's right and who's wrong, and it is just a matter of perspective when you get down to it. Let the the fans call names and stir shit up, hell someones going to do it anyways, but let it die on a different blog. This is high school crap, talk about what really matters to gamers which since you've forgotten is games. Intervention over.
*slow clap* Genius.
Here was my final message on it.
Brent said... (in response, on YTTH)
*shrugs* I asked him. It's why he responded - I sent him an email and asked him. (Talking about Mkerr.)
I'm done, and I think this is a good place to end it. I've done my best to advocate for how I see things, but I recognize others have a different perspective that is equally valid. More to the point, I don't like how wrapped up I got in this. I spent part of the day Sunday crafting some really vile attack posts, and the only thing I can say is I'm glad my wife was around to call me out on it. It would have been a horrible mistake to post it, but I'm ashamed I even wrote it. Paul, I don't know you, but it's obvious you've got a brain in your head by what you've wrote and how you've written it. I think if we met face to face we could have a civil discussion, but if I've been an ass in these posts I apologize. Anyway, you gave the world 'monkeysphere' so this hasn't been a waste.
I was serious about the time spent on Sunday. I lovingly created a very over-the-top smear campaign that, like a nuke, would have hit everyone. Including me, 'cause I would have been the ass to post it. It was uncalled for, completely, but I was irritated.
My ego got the best of me. I somehow thought I was above placing real emotion in something said/done on a website. Well, I wasn't immune. I jumped right in.
My sincere apologies to anyone I wronged, from JWolf who wasted his time to Bruce who has been looking forward to hearing about my recent tournament win.
Well, I haven't forgotten my hobby completely. I'm currently working on my Chaos Daemons. Here is my first test model, the lizards I'll be using as Fiends. This will be the unit 'champion' - it's about 70% done.
Here's my workspace, somewhat put away. I have a huge amount of stuff to put together. *sigh* This is the part I hate the most, the cleaning and building.
11.01.2009
Dumb Enough To Jump In - Again...
From Yes The Truth Hurts; sorry, I wasn't able to resist. :(
REGARDING PAUL’S POINT OF VIEW
Okay, so you were being snide.
But I am the bigger man! Get it, bigger man?
Let’s go back to the original email.
“OH my! This article up on saimhann is quite telling, particularly because jawaballs (the author) is part of the bols monkeysphere.”
So we established Jawaballs wasn’t the author; you made a mistake because your Reader posted an advert for Jawa’s painting videos or something. You’re also establishing you believe the author, Fritz in this case, is part of the BOLS Monkeysphere – but you went further when you later said, “…blindly agreeing with anything written by their beloved leaders without even thinking,” so it’s not a stretch to say you believe(d) Fritz is(was) a leader in that community. What did he do, send in the box top? Does he participate in the meetings where the conspiracy to take over the gaming community is even now being hatched? Okay, so here’s thelink – read the first line.
http://saimhann.blogspot.com/2009/10/seer-councils-are-banned.html
“Just an observation… from gents in the UK, Germany (et al).”
Fritz tells you in the first line what the rest of the post is about - which is good writing, by the way. Stelek is far, far cleverer - I’m not blind to how I’m being used here - without a word, with only reposting your reply from another thread, Stelek assured that some information he knew was on my blog would be reposted here by someone other than him so he could have a go at it. But I digress.
Please save me the trouble of copying more of the post by actually reading the whole thing. Don’t skip over the part where it says ‘posted by Fritz’ either. Don’t worry – I’ll wait.
Back yet? Did you read the part where Fritz said, “GW made the damn codex… if a model is illegal, why is it in the current codex?” Illuminating. Let’s get back to your original post.
I like how it's ok to ban inquisitorial armies and allied wh/dh on one site, but come down very hard on banning other units on another site. Seriously, either you let GW make the rules or you don't. You can't have it both ways. What a tangled web we weave....
So you’re taking this post and using it as evidence of hypocrisy at BOLSCON. Just making sure; you later accuse me of being unable to follow the brilliant chain of logic you established… whoops! Let’s use your words here and say ‘the utter lack of critical thinking and the inability to have a discussion contextually’ so I’m simply trying to establish I understood what you said, not what you thought you were saying when you backpedaled later. Fritz said, “If a model is illegal, why is it in the current codex?” You said, “Either you let GW make the rules or you don’t.” This is two different ways of saying the exact same thing. He wasn't disagreeing with you at all.
Okay, so why have I wasted almost 600 words and everyone’s time? To point out you didn’t do your homework before you shot off the email for no other purpose than bashing Bell again.
Gossip. Conjecture. Humans are so good at this game it doesn’t need to be taught: just ask any group of middle school girls who they hate and why. What you did was the blogosphere variant of whispering about someone you don’t like.
My post on the thread ‘reader-rant-banning-unit’ was actually in response to VetSgtNamaan’s words. Go back and read it. Am I the only one who finds it a tiny bit chilling? The ‘hate BOLSCON/hate Bell’ paradigm is now so established that this dude immediately understands the theme and attacks THEIR BASIC HUMAN DECENCY. I’ll agree with one thing, this has become such a ‘soup (shit?) sandwich’ that the original arguments are becoming lost in the random smearing. (As an aside, I have nothing against the dude who sits at his computer and posts as VetSgtNamaan. I have read enough of his posts to believe he’s an all-right dude, but if I had to guess I’d say he’s early 20’s.)
You said, same thread, “I’m afraid my point was missed if you thought the connection was tenuous. Let me reiterate. I don’t care about Fritz or Jawaballs or whoever. They’re fine guys. I don’t care for JWolf because he’s a dick.”
This is so genius I should let it rest as my final argument. But I won’t. I think when a post about another continent was written by a dude from another state that had nothing to do with an event he had no part in planning it is safe to call the connection tenuous. Now, you don’t know Fritz or Jawa but they’re fine guys… but JWolf, who you also don’t know, is a dick.
Here we finally, after all this, get to what you actually believe.
These people will sycophantically say how JWolf can do no wrong…
“What do you mean ‘these people’?” What do YOU mean ‘these people’?” Great movie. But I have to ask, “Who What When Where and can you please copy the link.” Like I’ve said previously, JWolf apologized for something he did, so he at least doesn’t seem to think he’s always right.
Here’s how the game is played. 1) Pick a target, in this case JWolf. 2) Take his words out of context and/or draw biased conclusions from a partial quote or assumption. 3) Build an argument so large and elaborate the original quote loses all meaning. 4) Defend your new position by drawing material from the fabrication. 5) Find others who agree. And so on.
Or won’t take a stance on his decision at BOLSCON…
I told you what I thought his reasons were (the guard codex came out in the same month as the event) but since I knew I was making an assumption, I asked him. Here are his words.
JWolf: “I banned DH/WH allies for BoLSCon because IG with Inquisitorial allies was both strongest build and could use the most wierd rules. Given time, people adjust and can compensate, but with the IG book brand new, I felt keeping the IG limited was worth doing for balance and playability's sake. I was loathe to ban anything...”
At our local tournaments we aren’t allowed to use a codex that hasn’t been out for at least one month. Like I’ve said before, this is not an unreasonable thing to do. Note here they didn’t actually ban the new codex, which I believe would also have been reasonable; instead, they compromised.
In my opinion, there are two possible paths the reasonable person could take here: agree or disagree. Enough people agreed with their wallets to make the event a success. Stelek disagreed, with this aspect of the event among other things, and decided to DO HIS OWN EVENT. I can respect that – hell, I do and I’ve said multiple times I want to be a part of such an event. Instead, the argument here is JWolf is a hypocrite because he advocates the use of all the rules normally but didn’t for BOLSCON. It’s a stretch. The decision was made for one event and they stuck by it; agree or disagree, your option.
Last, the Gladiator… would it change anyone’s mind to know JWolf gave away the Forge World Titan he won, just like he said he would before the event? Not ‘I’m going to do it but actually keep it’ but give it away to a stranger? No?
Then like I said in my blog, bringing it back up here, on Stelek’s blog, would accomplish nothing. There are no inconsistencies in his position, or mine, or even Stelek’s – there are opinions, and everyone’s got one.
REGARDING STELEK’S POINT OF VIEW
So, my thoughts on Stelek and his take on this. I believe he knew what he was doing reposting Paul’s reply on the previous thread. I think he knew full well what was said on my blog and as a master of generating interest he did the simplest thing to get the information here for much wider dispersal – after all, nobody reads my blog – so he or others could comment on it. My opinion is Stelek sees things in black and white, and yes I know I’m not the first to say this, so it is impossible for him to resist fighting the fight when he sees a chink in the armor. That’s fine by me – this is his site and he’s nothing if not consistent; also, I don’t really think he sees it as more than some grand intellectual argument, so he doesn’t seem to take anything personally until someone crosses the line. Have I crossed the line here? Don’t know. Doesn’t matter – his readers don’t seem to maintain the same aloofness, and much like any flame war it can get personal quick.
My worry is the constant use of Bell as the ‘bad example’ generates nothing but bad feeling; in that, I do believe there is a monkeysphere, ready charge at the first hint of blood. The reason I said the original thread was so much random bullshit is that it accomplishes NOTHING of Stelek’s mission statement, but is hate for hate’s sake.
I think this site is best when Stelek is doing his thing, making people rethink the game and how it’s played. I understand that part of that is drawing from examples across the internet, but it has to be allowed to die otherwise its whipping people into a frenzy for the sake of doing it.
Stelek, maybe I’m wrong. Why don’t you do a poll? Maybe not ‘Who Is Right, Brent or Paul’ (though I think that’s me!) but rather, ‘Do You Think This Blog Should Mention Others?’ or something on that vein.
Take care - Brent
REGARDING PAUL’S POINT OF VIEW
Okay, so you were being snide.
But I am the bigger man! Get it, bigger man?
Let’s go back to the original email.
“OH my! This article up on saimhann is quite telling, particularly because jawaballs (the author) is part of the bols monkeysphere.”
So we established Jawaballs wasn’t the author; you made a mistake because your Reader posted an advert for Jawa’s painting videos or something. You’re also establishing you believe the author, Fritz in this case, is part of the BOLS Monkeysphere – but you went further when you later said, “…blindly agreeing with anything written by their beloved leaders without even thinking,” so it’s not a stretch to say you believe(d) Fritz is(was) a leader in that community. What did he do, send in the box top? Does he participate in the meetings where the conspiracy to take over the gaming community is even now being hatched? Okay, so here’s thelink – read the first line.
http://saimhann.blogspot.com/2009/10/seer-councils-are-banned.html
“Just an observation… from gents in the UK, Germany (et al).”
Fritz tells you in the first line what the rest of the post is about - which is good writing, by the way. Stelek is far, far cleverer - I’m not blind to how I’m being used here - without a word, with only reposting your reply from another thread, Stelek assured that some information he knew was on my blog would be reposted here by someone other than him so he could have a go at it. But I digress.
Please save me the trouble of copying more of the post by actually reading the whole thing. Don’t skip over the part where it says ‘posted by Fritz’ either. Don’t worry – I’ll wait.
Back yet? Did you read the part where Fritz said, “GW made the damn codex… if a model is illegal, why is it in the current codex?” Illuminating. Let’s get back to your original post.
I like how it's ok to ban inquisitorial armies and allied wh/dh on one site, but come down very hard on banning other units on another site. Seriously, either you let GW make the rules or you don't. You can't have it both ways. What a tangled web we weave....
So you’re taking this post and using it as evidence of hypocrisy at BOLSCON. Just making sure; you later accuse me of being unable to follow the brilliant chain of logic you established… whoops! Let’s use your words here and say ‘the utter lack of critical thinking and the inability to have a discussion contextually’ so I’m simply trying to establish I understood what you said, not what you thought you were saying when you backpedaled later. Fritz said, “If a model is illegal, why is it in the current codex?” You said, “Either you let GW make the rules or you don’t.” This is two different ways of saying the exact same thing. He wasn't disagreeing with you at all.
Okay, so why have I wasted almost 600 words and everyone’s time? To point out you didn’t do your homework before you shot off the email for no other purpose than bashing Bell again.
Gossip. Conjecture. Humans are so good at this game it doesn’t need to be taught: just ask any group of middle school girls who they hate and why. What you did was the blogosphere variant of whispering about someone you don’t like.
My post on the thread ‘reader-rant-banning-unit’ was actually in response to VetSgtNamaan’s words. Go back and read it. Am I the only one who finds it a tiny bit chilling? The ‘hate BOLSCON/hate Bell’ paradigm is now so established that this dude immediately understands the theme and attacks THEIR BASIC HUMAN DECENCY. I’ll agree with one thing, this has become such a ‘soup (shit?) sandwich’ that the original arguments are becoming lost in the random smearing. (As an aside, I have nothing against the dude who sits at his computer and posts as VetSgtNamaan. I have read enough of his posts to believe he’s an all-right dude, but if I had to guess I’d say he’s early 20’s.)
You said, same thread, “I’m afraid my point was missed if you thought the connection was tenuous. Let me reiterate. I don’t care about Fritz or Jawaballs or whoever. They’re fine guys. I don’t care for JWolf because he’s a dick.”
This is so genius I should let it rest as my final argument. But I won’t. I think when a post about another continent was written by a dude from another state that had nothing to do with an event he had no part in planning it is safe to call the connection tenuous. Now, you don’t know Fritz or Jawa but they’re fine guys… but JWolf, who you also don’t know, is a dick.
Here we finally, after all this, get to what you actually believe.
These people will sycophantically say how JWolf can do no wrong…
“What do you mean ‘these people’?” What do YOU mean ‘these people’?” Great movie. But I have to ask, “Who What When Where and can you please copy the link.” Like I’ve said previously, JWolf apologized for something he did, so he at least doesn’t seem to think he’s always right.
Here’s how the game is played. 1) Pick a target, in this case JWolf. 2) Take his words out of context and/or draw biased conclusions from a partial quote or assumption. 3) Build an argument so large and elaborate the original quote loses all meaning. 4) Defend your new position by drawing material from the fabrication. 5) Find others who agree. And so on.
Or won’t take a stance on his decision at BOLSCON…
I told you what I thought his reasons were (the guard codex came out in the same month as the event) but since I knew I was making an assumption, I asked him. Here are his words.
JWolf: “I banned DH/WH allies for BoLSCon because IG with Inquisitorial allies was both strongest build and could use the most wierd rules. Given time, people adjust and can compensate, but with the IG book brand new, I felt keeping the IG limited was worth doing for balance and playability's sake. I was loathe to ban anything...”
At our local tournaments we aren’t allowed to use a codex that hasn’t been out for at least one month. Like I’ve said before, this is not an unreasonable thing to do. Note here they didn’t actually ban the new codex, which I believe would also have been reasonable; instead, they compromised.
In my opinion, there are two possible paths the reasonable person could take here: agree or disagree. Enough people agreed with their wallets to make the event a success. Stelek disagreed, with this aspect of the event among other things, and decided to DO HIS OWN EVENT. I can respect that – hell, I do and I’ve said multiple times I want to be a part of such an event. Instead, the argument here is JWolf is a hypocrite because he advocates the use of all the rules normally but didn’t for BOLSCON. It’s a stretch. The decision was made for one event and they stuck by it; agree or disagree, your option.
Last, the Gladiator… would it change anyone’s mind to know JWolf gave away the Forge World Titan he won, just like he said he would before the event? Not ‘I’m going to do it but actually keep it’ but give it away to a stranger? No?
Then like I said in my blog, bringing it back up here, on Stelek’s blog, would accomplish nothing. There are no inconsistencies in his position, or mine, or even Stelek’s – there are opinions, and everyone’s got one.
REGARDING STELEK’S POINT OF VIEW
So, my thoughts on Stelek and his take on this. I believe he knew what he was doing reposting Paul’s reply on the previous thread. I think he knew full well what was said on my blog and as a master of generating interest he did the simplest thing to get the information here for much wider dispersal – after all, nobody reads my blog – so he or others could comment on it. My opinion is Stelek sees things in black and white, and yes I know I’m not the first to say this, so it is impossible for him to resist fighting the fight when he sees a chink in the armor. That’s fine by me – this is his site and he’s nothing if not consistent; also, I don’t really think he sees it as more than some grand intellectual argument, so he doesn’t seem to take anything personally until someone crosses the line. Have I crossed the line here? Don’t know. Doesn’t matter – his readers don’t seem to maintain the same aloofness, and much like any flame war it can get personal quick.
My worry is the constant use of Bell as the ‘bad example’ generates nothing but bad feeling; in that, I do believe there is a monkeysphere, ready charge at the first hint of blood. The reason I said the original thread was so much random bullshit is that it accomplishes NOTHING of Stelek’s mission statement, but is hate for hate’s sake.
I think this site is best when Stelek is doing his thing, making people rethink the game and how it’s played. I understand that part of that is drawing from examples across the internet, but it has to be allowed to die otherwise its whipping people into a frenzy for the sake of doing it.
Stelek, maybe I’m wrong. Why don’t you do a poll? Maybe not ‘Who Is Right, Brent or Paul’ (though I think that’s me!) but rather, ‘Do You Think This Blog Should Mention Others?’ or something on that vein.
Take care - Brent
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